Episode Overview
In this episode of the Making Sense of Your Money podcast, Dan Pascone talks with
Sebastian Hidalgo about how he transformed his training in
hostage negotiation and psychological operations into the
SWAT Sales Method (Sales With Advanced Tactics).They break down why selling is a diagnostic process, how
empathy and authority build trust, and why the best closers ask
better questions instead of pitching harder.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
- How hostage negotiation principles translate directly into high-stakes B2B sales
- Why sales should be treated as a diagnostic process, not a pitch
- The three pillars of influence: empathy, trust, and authority
- Why older methods like Sandler, Challenger, and MEDDIC often fail with modern buyers
- How to use regret in a subtle way to move deals forward without triggering resistance
- How to “earn the right to pitch” and stop leading with a slide deck
- Why fake rapport (“how’s the weather?”) kills trust, and what to do instead
- How fitness and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu made Sebastian a better salesperson
Chapters & Timestamps
- 00:00 – Intro: Host, show, and episode setup
- 00:26 – What this episode will cover: hostage negotiation & sales
- 00:52 – Show bumper: Making Sense of Your Money
- 01:13 – Meet Sebastian: background, countries, and career path
- 01:48 – What Derindle does: consulting for dual-use defense tech firms
- 02:45 – From Never Split the Difference to the SWAT Sales Method
- 03:03 – SWAT: Sales With Advanced Tactics explained
- 03:51 – Why legacy methodologies (Sandler, Challenger, MEDDIC) don’t fit modern buyers
- 04:34 – Turning influence into a repeatable process based on psychology
- 04:55 – How Sebastian got into hostage-negotiation training at 17
- 06:22 – Persistence, stubbornness, and natural sales instincts
- 07:41 – What most sellers are doing wrong on first calls today
- 09:01 – The overwhelmed, spoiled modern buyer and “do nothing” as a competitor
- 09:45 – Sales as diagnosis: putting on the doctor’s hat
- 10:27 – Empathy, trust, authority: three levers of influence
- 11:12 – Using regret and future consequences ethically in sales
- 11:55 – Accelerating trust without cheesy rapport-building
- 12:52 – Labels, guided conversations, and making buyers feel deeply seen
- 13:53 – “Don’t pitch, prescribe”: earning the right to talk about your solution
- 14:52 – Who Sebastian trains: startup teams, growth-stage, and enterprise
- 16:39 – The inflection point: SCOPS training and embracing being a seller
- 18:41 – Lightning round: steak, tools, and the role of the gym
- 19:35 – Fitness, setbacks, and always bouncing back
- 21:36 – Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as the physical version of objection handling
- 22:48 – Writing the SWAT book & searching for a literary agent
- 23:30 – Advice to his younger self: more faith, more action
- 24:19 – How to connect with Sebastian
- 24:55 – Outro: where to find more from Dan & the show
Key Takeaways
- Sales is a diagnostic process.
Great sellers operate like doctors: they ask deep questions, explore history, present reality, and future consequences
before “prescribing” a solution. - Legacy frameworks don’t match today’s buyer.
Methods built decades ago don’t account for buyers who are overloaded with options,
skeptical from past failures, and see “do nothing” as the safest choice. - Influence requires empathy, trust, and authority.
If any one of these is missing, your ability to shape a decision collapses. - Stop leading with a pitch.
When buyers say, “Tell me about your company,” their brain is trying to quickly categorize and dismiss you.
In SWAT, you haven’t earned the right to pitch until you fully understand their world. - Use regret carefully.
Guiding prospects to imagine the future they’d regret if they don’t act can be powerful, but only when done subtly,
or else you trigger sales resistance. - Fitness and Jiu-Jitsu map to sales.
Consistency in the gym teaches resilience and the ability to bounce back; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu teaches you not to
brute-force objections, but to find smarter angles around resistance.
About Sebastian Hidalgo
Name: Sebastian D. P. Hidalgo
Role: Head of Strategy & Head Sales Trainer at Derindle
Background: Hostage negotiation and psychological operations training, with extensive experience
helping founders and teams close large, complex enterprise deals and improve close rates across multiple industries.
Sebastian is the creator of the SWAT Sales Method (Sales With Advanced Tactics), which turns
influence into a repeatable, step-by-step process based on human psychology and modern buyer behavior.
Connect with Sebastian:
Email: sebastian.durindle.com
LinkedIn: search for “Sebastian DPhidalgo”
Substack: search his name on Substack
About the Podcast
Making Sense of Your Money is a podcast hosted by
Dan Pascone, CEO of Tailored Wealth. The show features real conversations
to help high earners make sharper decisions so their money works as hard as they do.
You can find the podcast, newsletter, and YouTube channel all for free at:
MakingSenseOfYourMoney.com