Unlocking Hidden Travel Perks | Dan Pascone with John Taylor Garner | Ep #22

John Taylor Garner is the founder and CEO of Odin, which he describes as the "Shopify for travel portals and travel loyalty." Before that, John says he ran the international macro cross-asset volatility book at Merrill Lynch for about 6 years. By his account, his desk was the number 1 in the world at what it did and averaged about $350 million a year in revenue with a team of 8–9 people. [VERIFY: guest claims, not independently verified]

He left at the end of 2018 to start Card Curator, a consumer app for credit cards that he compared to NerdWallet or The Points Guy. The idea grew out of a hobby: opening credit cards and using points and miles to fly first and business class and stay in 5-star hotels. John describes Odin as an outgrowth of that work, built for businesses rather than individual consumers.

If you carry a premium card like an Amex Platinum, Sapphire Reserve or Venture X, you probably have access to a travel portal. John explains that most banks don't build these portals themselves, and that, in his words, the vast majority of card issuers don't have one at all because they're expensive to set up and dominated by a few large travel-technology companies. He says those companies generally won't take on contracts smaller than about $10 million to start, which leaves community banks, credit unions and newer card brands out. [VERIFY: guest claim]

Odin offers a white-label, modular travel portal and loyalty platform (software as a service) that card issuers can customize. John is clear that Odin isn't a travel company. It doesn't process bookings or issue tickets. A partner, Duffel, supplies the airline and hotel inventory and handles the bookings.

As John describes it, Odin also powers pieces of the Bilt backend, such as the technology that shows earn rates when you link a card and the pricing of hotel point transfers. He adds that Odin supports points-and-miles blogs Monkey Miles and FareDrop, and says that because those sites aren't tied to specific airline or hotel partners, they offer "completely unbiased recommendations." We haven't verified that claim, and we're not endorsing any company or product mentioned in this episode. [VERIFY: Bilt relationship and "unbiased" claim] John also referred to partnerships that haven't been publicly announced, so we don't repeat them here.

According to John, the number 1 issue for card issuers today is churn, meaning cardholders canceling. He says retention has been getting worse since COVID, for 2 main reasons.

• More competition: He points to newer entrants like Bilt, Brex and Ramp, plus niche cards built for specific needs, such as car payments or mortgages.
• Confusing pricing: Airlines and hotels have moved away from published award charts toward dynamic pricing. If you don't know what a redemption should cost, John says, you're less likely to use your points, and you start asking why you're paying a $500 or $800 annual fee for something you don't understand.

For cardholders, the lesson holds regardless of which card you carry: if you can't say what your points are worth, you can't tell whether the annual fee is justified.

John says the average person with an ultra-premium card is sitting on more than 1 million points and miles across programs, largely because they sense there's value but aren't sure how to use it. [VERIFY: guest claim] He views that as better than the alternative, since redeeming points for items like iPads, toasters or gift cards is, in his words, a horrible redemption.

He also notes that earning points through sign-up bonuses takes time: you need to hit the minimum spend, wait for the statement to close, and then wait for the bonus to post, which he says can take 2–3 months. Many executives already hold points with a major bank or airline, so a first step is often just taking inventory. What a point is worth varies by program, route, date and availability, and nothing about it is guaranteed.

Dan described a loosely hypothetical situation: Marriott Titanium Elite status, an Amex Platinum, and a trip to Italy in February or March, 6–8 months out. Here's how John would approach it, at the time of recording. These figures are point-in-time and award pricing changes often, so treat them as an illustration of the process, not a quote.

• Flights: John suggests Aeroplan (Air Canada), an Amex transfer partner, because Star Alliance carriers dominate continental Europe. Transfers are normally 1:1, but he says bonuses of roughly 1:1.2 to 1:1.35 appear from time to time.
• Cost: He estimates about 70,000 miles one way in business class, plus roughly 110 Canadian dollars (about $75 US) in taxes and fees. For 2 people round trip, that's 140,000–280,000 miles, or as little as about 220,000 Amex points with a transfer bonus.
• Hotels: If you're short on Marriott points, Amex also transfers to Marriott. John cited a Chase-to-Marriott transfer bonus of 60% at the time (1 Chase point = 1.6 Marriott points).

His broader point is that you may not need new cards to do this. Often the existing relationships you already have are enough. Availability, bonuses and program rules change, so confirm everything with the airline, hotel and card issuer before you act. [VERIFY: time-sensitive figures]

John says airlines and hotels are cutting loyalty costs and shifting to dynamic pricing, and he calls that short-sighted because, in his view, loyalty programs are among the most profitable parts of their businesses. He pointed to the backlash after Delta's SkyMiles changes in October 2023 and to ITA Airways' recent changes as examples of customers pushing back.

He described Odin's systems as natural-language-processing AI that tracks pricing and rule changes so users see updates. He also said he sees the industry as cyclical: cost cuts tend to come every 5–10 years while travel is booming, and perks tend to return when travel slumps. That's his view, and we aren't predicting what any program will do.

On technology, John explained that airlines are moving toward NDC (New Distribution Capability), which lets flights be booked through APIs rather than older distribution systems. His point is that an API can plug into a chatbot, which he expects to matter more as AI tools get better at planning and booking travel. That's an industry outlook, not a certainty.

In the lightning round, John shared a tactic. He noted that the Chase Sapphire Reserve annual fee rose from about $550 to about $800. His suggestion: if you're thinking about canceling a card, wait until the annual fee posts. Then, within 30 days, call the issuer, say you're thinking about canceling, and ask what retention offer they can make. If the offer isn't good, he says you can cancel and have the fee refunded. [VERIFY: guest tactic, issuer policies vary]

Treat this as a single person's experience, not a rule. Offers vary, aren't guaranteed and may differ by issuer, so check your cardholder agreement for the refund window. Closing a card can also affect your credit score by changing your available credit and the average age of your accounts. And rewards rarely make up for interest, so a premium card makes little sense if you carry a balance. For plain-English definitions of terms like annual fee and APR, the CFPB's credit card key terms page is a useful reference.

• Coffee or tea: Coffee.
• Meal for the rest of your life: Branzino with grilled vegetables.
• Technology he can't live without: Apple TV.
• Favorite quote: "It's about the journey, not the destination." His reasoning: once you hit a goal, you'll ask "now what?", so enjoy the process.
• Books: Freakonomics, Barbarians at the Gate, Liar's Poker, the Malcolm Gladwell books, and Market Wizards.
• Current milestone: Reaching cash-flow positivity at Odin by year-end, "knock on wood."
• Bucket list item: His honeymoon in Bali, 5.5 weeks over Christmas and New Year's, with all flights and hotels paid with points and miles and cash used only for food and drink.
• Advice: From his Merrill Lynch years, John says who you work with matters more than what you do.

• Points are only worth what you can redeem them for: A balance of 1 million points means little until you know what it buys. Value changes by program, date and availability, so we'd never plan around a fixed number.

• An annual fee is a recurring cost: A $500–$800 fee belongs in your cash flow like any other line item. The right test is whether you use benefits you'd have paid for anyway, not whether the card has a long list of perks.

• Rewards should follow spending, not drive it: In our view, the best use of a card is on spending you'd already do, paid in full each month. If rewards push you to spend more, the math usually turns against you. We cover that balance in our 70/20/10 rule post on enjoying life now while funding your future.

This hypothetical is for illustration only. All figures are assumed, aren't projections or recommendations, and ignore interest, credit score effects and taxes. Point values vary widely.

Assume an executive in her late 40s with $600,000 in household income and 2 premium cards with annual fees of $795 and $550, or $1,345 combined. She keeps the cards in both scenarios below.

• Scenario A: She would have paid $8,000 in cash for 2 round-trip business-class tickets to Europe. She books them with 220,000 transferred points and also uses $550 of statement credits on expenses she'd have paid anyway. Value received: $8,550 against $1,345 in fees.
• Scenario B: She would have flown economy for $1,200 and uses just $100 in credits. Value received: $1,300 against $1,345 in fees.

Same cards, same points, very different outcomes. The difference comes from what she would have paid for anyway. Counting only that is a more honest way to judge a fee. A CPA can address any tax questions about rewards or credits.

We use Life-Driven Planning, a 6-phase plan covering Cash Flow, Retirement & Hybrid Retirement, Risk, Expense & Goal, Tax and Legacy. Points and miles live mostly in the Cash Flow and Expense & Goal phases: what you spend, what you want your lifestyle to look like, and what each card costs you each year. Our video on what a real financial plan includes walks through how those pieces connect.

Life Driven Investing (LDI) is how we build a portfolio backward from your life using the Four Liquidity Bands: 0–2 years, 3–5 years, 6–10 years and 10+ years. A trip you're planning 6–8 months out is a 0–2 year goal, so it's funded from cash, not from risk assets. Under our Quarterly Strategy Rhythm (ongoing plan updates, decision reviews and rebalancing), we'd also review the fees on cards and subscriptions regularly. For executives with RSUs, options or an ESPP, our Equity Compensation Playbook sets rules for when and how equity funds lifestyle goals, so big spending doesn't come from ad hoc decisions.

John's 5.5-week trip is a good picture of the kind of extended time away we plan for as Mini-Retirements, which are deliberate breaks built into a working life. They're one piece of a Hybrid Retirement, where work becomes optional on your terms. This episode is educational and isn't an endorsement of any company, card or product discussed.

This episode is for corporate executives and senior professionals in their 40s and 50s with $500k+ in household income and complex compensation, who carry premium cards, hold large point balances and want to make sure lifestyle spending supports their plan. If you're building toward a Hybrid Retirement and want the details around travel, cash flow and equity to work together, this conversation is for you.

If you're a high-earning executive and want to see how lifestyle spending, equity compensation and a hybrid retirement fit together, we'd be glad to talk it through. Book a free Wealth Strategy Call with us, and we'll look at your situation together.